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Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 20:29 
 
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nikkita schreef:
I already addressed this in previous posts. Also: even when you're with a label in this scene, you're still paying out of pocket for things like music videos, etc. Zatox paid for "My Life", out of his own pocket for e.g. He also paid for his own websites, graphics, and photoshoots. If WP wanted to set up a tour for 3 months in NL, they would have to pay for everything out of pocket, and there is no guarantee they'd have bookings. Besides that, some of the contracts lock you in with strange terms. For example: everything you do would "belong" to the label, whether they choose to release it or not. Even if you leave, it still "belongs" to them.

"Knowledge"... not really, if the label has bad A&R/development, you don't get anything out of it. Some labels host workshops here and there, but if you're on the label then chances are you already meet whatever criteria/standard they have in place. Some artists sign, get zero feedback, and are effectively iced and eventually leave because they are more constricted with the label. :)


Of course they do. The revenue they create is nowhere near big names from the dance/house scene. You truly expect the label to pay for all of this? Music clips are simply not cost-beneficial in this scene and so are these tours and interactive website's. It would surely cost the label more than they would gain from it. (financial and as well strategic marketing).

It is your own responsibly to make sure the contract you sign is fair. You truly underestimate the knowledge and experience (decent) labels have, the success of the producer is also in the label's best interest.
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 20:41 
 
Artiest

mrazura schreef:
nikkita schreef:
I already addressed this in previous posts. Also: even when you're with a label in this scene, you're still paying out of pocket for things like music videos, etc. Zatox paid for "My Life", out of his own pocket for e.g. He also paid for his own websites, graphics, and photoshoots. If WP wanted to set up a tour for 3 months in NL, they would have to pay for everything out of pocket, and there is no guarantee they'd have bookings. Besides that, some of the contracts lock you in with strange terms. For example: everything you do would "belong" to the label, whether they choose to release it or not. Even if you leave, it still "belongs" to them.

"Knowledge"... not really, if the label has bad A&R/development, you don't get anything out of it. Some labels host workshops here and there, but if you're on the label then chances are you already meet whatever criteria/standard they have in place. Some artists sign, get zero feedback, and are effectively iced and eventually leave because they are more constricted with the label. :)


Of course they do. The revenue they create is nowhere near big names from the dance/house scene. You truly expect the label to pay for all of this? Music clips are simply not cost-beneficial in this scene and so are these tours and interactive website's. It would surely cost the label more than they would gain from it. (financial and as well strategic marketing).

It is your own responsibly to make sure the contract you sign is fair. You truly underestimate the knowledge and experience (decent) labels have, the success of the producer is also in the label's best interest.


The whole point of a label is to bankroll the artists they sign. That is their function. They put up the money in creating/marketing a product, and make it back in sales. When the label is now dipping their hands in to merchandising and also expecting a % from bookings, then yes: you are supposed to make sure that money goes back in to the artist, especially if you expect the artist to foot the bill to make you that money... otherwise: it doesn't work.

You don't need to act like I don't already know this... I am fully aware as it is the first thing I tell people: read the contract, get others to read it, check it with a lawyer, and negotiate. If they are not open to negotiating and you don't feel right about it, put it down. However, I have also been handed a contract by a certain label and told "this is non-negotiable". It essentially worked out to: "you pay for everything and when you eventually make money, we'll just take a cut".

I also never underestimated everything... please read over my previous posts. :) In fact, I addressed that particular topic.

Citaat:
Exactly as Parvuz said... this is why labels like Scantraxx are still necessary. As much as they are hated on, being with Scantraxx holds a lot of "prestige" with many fans who live under the idea that "if you're on a label, you are suddenly the best artist ever and I need to be a fan of you!!".


Citaat:
As for whether it's a "good thing" for Scantraxx to fall: I respectfully disagree... They have helped grow some of the top artists currently in the scene. I may not like what they do, but it's why I didn't go with them. It's that simple, for me.

Sometimes people simply outgrow the label they are on, or sometimes the label wants something the artist can't provide, and the other way around. Every artist has their own reasons. That's all. It's like being employed somewhere: you can love your job, but feel you can be working somewhere better, or even for yourself.
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 20:47 
 

As for whether it's a "good thing" for Scantraxx to fall: I respectfully disagree... They have helped grow some of the top artists currently in the scene. I may not like what they do, but it's why I didn't go with them. It's that simple, for me.


The Roman Empire has done some things too. they have fallen aswell.
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 21:09 
 
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But Nikkita,

Let me ask you this one question: Do you find it ethical acceptable for them to simply leave the label even though the label is the one who ''made them''. The label has invested a lot of time and money in them.

Citaat:
You don't need to act like I don't already know this...


This was never my intention. I'm sorry if it looks this way.
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 21:27 
 
Artiest

mrazura schreef:
But Nikkita,

Let me ask you this one question: Do you find it ethical acceptable for them to simply leave the label even though the label is the one who ''made them''. The label has invested a lot of time and money in them.


Absolutely, as that's already covered in the contract. WP already had an interesting following before Scantraxx, and what they have is more owed to leg work they did on their own, through their own country, and by soliciting fans/rallying them to their cause.

As for investing "time and money"... to be fair, there's no real time or money in to online distribution or social media... and as I also said: the artist foots the bill for just about everything anyway with the exception of a few things that can be done in house by the label.

I know you guys seem to think once you get with a label, everything's going to be A-OK: but it doesn't always work like that.

Again: being with a label is just a different way of doing business. It works out for some people, and for others it just doesn't work. You wouldn't force somebody to stay in a relationship that didn't work just because "you've been together so long, you owe them"; and you wouldn't tell someone to stay at a job they did not enjoy.

Happy producers make good music, regardless of the label they are (or are not) on.
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 21:28 
 

nikkita schreef:
mrazura schreef:
But Nikkita,

Let me ask you this one question: Do you find it ethical acceptable for them to simply leave the label even though the label is the one who ''made them''. The label has invested a lot of time and money in them.


Absolutely, as that's already covered in the contract. WP already had an interesting following before Scantraxx, and what they have is more owed to leg work they did on their own, through their own country, and by soliciting fans/rallying them to their cause.

As for investing "time and money"... to be fair, there's no real time or money in to online distribution or social media... and as I also said: the artist foots the bill for just about everything anyway with the exception of a few things that can be done in house by the label.

I know you guys seem to think once you get with a label, everything's going to be A-OK: but it doesn't always work like that.

Again: being with a label is just a different way of doing business. It works out for some people, and for others it just doesn't work. You wouldn't force somebody to stay in a relationship that didn't work just because "you've been together so long, you owe them"; and you wouldn't tell someone to stay at a job they did not enjoy.

Happy producers make good music, regardless of the label they are (or are not) on.


This means scantraxx producers are not happy.
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 21:45 
 
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They build-up a huge fanbase and now they wanted to start make a lot of money without paying 50% to uncle Dov. They have the advantage that people will always connect them to Scantraxx so they wont lose there face in the scene. Now we're all waiting till Headhunterz will start up his own label maybe.
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 21:48 
 
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Ik denk dat Willem ook niet weg wilt gaan bij Scantraxx. Aangezien Dov hem heel erg groot heeft gemaakt totdat hij nu is.
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 21:53 
 

hardstyle007 schreef:
Parvuz schreef:
Nikkita heeft volgens mij wel gelijk. Labels worden eigenlijk steeds zinlozer sinds vinyl haast niet meer gebruikt wordt. Iedereen kan online muziek verkopen, daar heb je geen label voor nodig. :P


Zit eigenlijk wel wat in, dat elke artiest voortaan gewoon zijn eigen muziek verkoopt en dat er een bedrijf voor de merchandise zorgt. En dat het management team voor de optredens zorgt, probleem opgelost!

Dan mag het Producers topic weg? Zever... SweCluberz bv. Die hebben nu ook een 'label', als iedereen met zoiets gaat begin kan je geen onderscheid maken in kwaliteit?
Dan heeft iedereen een label en lijkt iedereen een professioneel producer?
Dan is dat het begin van het einde :)...
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 21:56 
 
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Waarom zou het Producers topic dan weg moeten?
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 22:00 
 
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nikkita schreef:
Absolutely, as that's already covered in the contract. WP already had an interesting following before Scantraxx, and what they have is more owed to leg work they did on their own, through their own country, and by soliciting fans/rallying them to their cause.

As for investing "time and money"... to be fair, there's no real time or money in to online distribution or social media... and as I also said: the artist foots the bill for just about everything anyway with the exception of a few things that can be done in house by the label.

I know you guys seem to think once you get with a label, everything's going to be A-OK: but it doesn't always work like that.

Again: being with a label is just a different way of doing business. It works out for some people, and for others it just doesn't work. You wouldn't force somebody to stay in a relationship that didn't work just because "you've been together so long, you owe them"; and you wouldn't tell someone to stay at a job they did not enjoy.

Happy producers make good music, regardless of the label they are (or are not) on.


But now let's take Brennan Heart and Frontliner. Scantraxx has made them and it's not the other way around. Brennan Heart his first album rather failed due the criticism it received. However, scantraxx gave him another chance which also wasn't a great succes. After all the years supporting him now Brennan Heart simply leaves.
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 22:01 
 

Kwisniks schreef:
Waarom zou het Producers topic dan weg moeten?

Ik was zojuist bij de release van SweCluberz aan het kijken, en iemand zei dat die zooi in het Producers Topic hoorde, maar een moderator (ga nu niet kijken wie) vertelde dat die SweCluberz een label heeft.
Wel als iedereen dan zomaar een label kan hebben... Zever toch? Niet?
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 22:10 
 
Artiest

mrazura schreef:
nikkita schreef:
Absolutely, as that's already covered in the contract. WP already had an interesting following before Scantraxx, and what they have is more owed to leg work they did on their own, through their own country, and by soliciting fans/rallying them to their cause.

As for investing "time and money"... to be fair, there's no real time or money in to online distribution or social media... and as I also said: the artist foots the bill for just about everything anyway with the exception of a few things that can be done in house by the label.

I know you guys seem to think once you get with a label, everything's going to be A-OK: but it doesn't always work like that.

Again: being with a label is just a different way of doing business. It works out for some people, and for others it just doesn't work. You wouldn't force somebody to stay in a relationship that didn't work just because "you've been together so long, you owe them"; and you wouldn't tell someone to stay at a job they did not enjoy.

Happy producers make good music, regardless of the label they are (or are not) on.


But now let's take Brennan Heart and Frontliner. Scantraxx has made them and it's not the other way around. Brennan Heart his first album rather failed due the criticism it received. However, scantraxx gave him another chance which also wasn't a great succes. After all the years supporting him now Brennan Heart simply leaves.


Once again: sometimes people outgrow the label, and sometimes labels can go in one direction and the artist in a new direction. Besides that, just because an artist doesn't make a complaint in public, doesn't mean that everything is "fine". Like I said: shit happens, and sometimes things fall apart or just don't work out.

I do know what the contracts are like, and in some of them the artist continues paying a "good faith" fee to the original label for up to 2 years after.

As long as everything is by the contract and people are paid on time and what they are owed, it's ethical.
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 22:15 
 
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Spablauw schreef:
Kwisniks schreef:
Waarom zou het Producers topic dan weg moeten?

Ik was zojuist bij de release van SweCluberz aan het kijken, en iemand zei dat die zooi in het Producers Topic hoorde, maar een moderator (ga nu niet kijken wie) vertelde dat die SweCluberz een label heeft.
Wel als iedereen dan zomaar een label kan hebben... Zever toch? Niet?

De bedoeling van het producers gedeelte is toch juist dat mensen vragen aan elkaar kunnen stellen, adviezen geven, beoordelen van elkaars producties voor diegene die niet bij een erkend label zitten. :P
Als iedereen bij een zomaar bij een label zou zitten dan zou het onnodig zijn maar dit zal nooit het geval zijn denk ik zo, wie wil er nou bij een label zitten waar je niet kunt groeien en waar je geen naambekendheid mee kan krijgen. Dat is uiteindelijk iedereen zijn doel naarmate ze meer en meer kunnen?
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 22:22 
 
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Hoe zit het dan bij Neilio? Die heeft toch ook geen(groot) label???
Hij was wel bekend, maar toch... En hoe heeft hij het eigenlijk voor elkaar gekregen om op Bassleader en Defqon te staan???
Bericht Geplaatst op 17 mei 2012 23:09 
 

Bakker Fijnebol schreef:
Hoe zit het dan bij Neilio? Die heeft toch ook geen(groot) label???
Hij was wel bekend, maar toch... En hoe heeft hij het eigenlijk voor elkaar gekregen om op Bassleader en Defqon te staan???

Hij is in mijn ogen bekend geworden door veel kwaliteitsvolle tracks weg te geven, en dat verspreid in tijd. Als het goed en gratis is loopt dat als een vuurtje, hij verdient dat ook in mijn ogen. Hij werkt ervoor en verdient respect.

En over dat producers corner, daar bedoel ik eigenlijk het eigen track gedeelte (of hoe dat noemt). Sorry voor de verwarring...
Bericht Geplaatst op 18 mei 2012 00:06 
 
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Vanavond geven Wp een interview in een BBC radio1 uitzending.
Ben benieuwd of ze dan ook meer uitleg geven :)
Bericht Geplaatst op 18 mei 2012 00:24 
 
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Tuurlijk niet. Gewoon standaard gezwam zal dat wel worden.

Vind t wel mooi dat in dit topic niet kansloos gebashed wordt, maar dat toch een behoorlijk deel van de reacties goed onderbouwd is. Weet zeker dat een hoop artiesten meelezen hier.
Bericht Geplaatst op 18 mei 2012 11:35 
 
Hardtraxxer

Spablauw schreef:
Bakker Fijnebol schreef:
Hoe zit het dan bij Neilio? Die heeft toch ook geen(groot) label???
Hij was wel bekend, maar toch... En hoe heeft hij het eigenlijk voor elkaar gekregen om op Bassleader en Defqon te staan???

Hij is in mijn ogen bekend geworden door veel kwaliteitsvolle tracks weg te geven, en dat verspreid in tijd. Als het goed en gratis is loopt dat als een vuurtje, hij verdient dat ook in mijn ogen. Hij werkt ervoor en verdient respect.

En over dat producers corner, daar bedoel ik eigenlijk het eigen track gedeelte (of hoe dat noemt). Sorry voor de verwarring...


Ben ik het helemaal mee eens! Zijn tracks zijn veelal van goede kwaliteit!
Bericht Geplaatst op 18 mei 2012 11:55 
 
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Fusionmania schreef:
Vanavond geven Wp een interview in een BBC radio1 uitzending.
Ben benieuwd of ze dan ook meer uitleg geven :)

en wat zeiden de penguinz?
Bericht Geplaatst op 18 mei 2012 11:56 
 
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kaboem schreef:
As for whether it's a "good thing" for Scantraxx to fall: I respectfully disagree... They have helped grow some of the top artists currently in the scene. I may not like what they do, but it's why I didn't go with them. It's that simple, for me.


The Roman Empire has done some things too. they have fallen aswell.

Yeah, and Hitler made the Autobahn. Stupid comparison >.<
Bericht Geplaatst op 18 mei 2012 12:41 
 
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Zygoma schreef:
kaboem schreef:
As for whether it's a "good thing" for Scantraxx to fall: I respectfully disagree... They have helped grow some of the top artists currently in the scene. I may not like what they do, but it's why I didn't go with them. It's that simple, for me.


The Roman Empire has done some things too. they have fallen aswell.

Yeah, and Hitler made the Autobahn. Stupid comparison >.<

Godwinnnn
Bericht Geplaatst op 18 mei 2012 13:10 
 
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Wildstylerz schreef:
Fusionmania schreef:
Vanavond geven Wp een interview in een BBC radio1 uitzending.
Ben benieuwd of ze dan ook meer uitleg geven :)

en wat zeiden de penguinz?



Helemaal niets over dit onderwerp xd
Bericht Geplaatst op 18 mei 2012 13:11 
 
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RedRiver67 schreef:
Wildstylerz schreef:
Fusionmania schreef:
Vanavond geven Wp een interview in een BBC radio1 uitzending.
Ben benieuwd of ze dan ook meer uitleg geven :)

en wat zeiden de penguinz?



Helemaal niets over dit onderwerp xd

klopt luister het nu terug maar wat is falling lekker :love:
Bericht Geplaatst op 18 mei 2012 16:48 
 
Artiest

Zygoma schreef:
kaboem schreef:
As for whether it's a "good thing" for Scantraxx to fall: I respectfully disagree... They have helped grow some of the top artists currently in the scene. I may not like what they do, but it's why I didn't go with them. It's that simple, for me.


The Roman Empire has done some things too. they have fallen aswell.

Yeah, and Hitler made the Autobahn. Stupid comparison >.<


Yeah, I can see how the mass genocide of millions is totally the same as a company people chose to sign to, that still consistently churns out fan favourites. :thumbdown:
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